Scalability Upgrade for Decentraland: Implementing Rollup Solutions This proposal is now in status: REJECTED. Voting Results: * Yes 1% 26,901 VP (55 votes) * No 98% 6,903,072 VP (154 votes) * Abstain 1% 4,667 VP (4 votes)

Certainly, I understand your concerns about the rollup integration proposal and the team's understanding of the Decentraland platform and its needs. We know what we are talking about, this idea was well thought and was not just proposed to see what could we do once the idea was approved. You are right in one thing, Decentraland has more issues, that probably have to be prioritized, we are working in other ideas. Thank you for your consideration, and hope you like what we could offer in the future

Theres a lot in this comments thread that show me maybe the team doesn't really understand the platform and its needs. And it's wanting to test something they have an idea for. This is not a good enough rationale for me to vote yes on this proposal. When I saw the comment about lowering eth transactions, I knew right away that maybe y'all don't actually use the platform often. I'd suggest to spend more time here using the platform and getting to know how the Community and Foundation work, before bringing a proposal to vote. There are better issues to focus on and spend resources on IMO.

This will save money to customers and people who want to enter the metaverse, not just us. Take that into account

160k are not to determine what to do, also they are to start working. You have to take something else into account, if we want to remain competitive we have to start doing these types of things because other metaverse have done them and are doing it. We have to start contemplating spending more money, sorry not spending but investing. Understand my perspective, and let´s use Decentraland´s money for the best and not just keeping it there, because at some point we will lose it, this if we stay out of the market. Just compare the demand of Decentraland and other metaverses, and you´ll realize what the problem is. Look at the volume of "Otherside"

In the last 4 months, we spent 5k MATIC on polygon, that's 15k MATIC / 16k USD per year at current rate. This 160k grant, which is solely to analyse if this project is a good idea or not, would take 10 years to ROI at the current rate (If rollup offer free txs and there is no other ongoing costs).

It is not excessive, actually costs can be way higher. This is why I divided into three stages the project. Believe me when I say that this investment (because it is an investment) will save us a lot of money in the future and attract more people

Yeah, so 160k just to know if it's a good idea or not, that seems a bit excessive.

This stage involves researching and analyzing the existing system architecture, evaluating the potential benefits of rollups, and designing the necessary technical infrastructure. It also includes conducting cost-benefit analyses to determine the most effective use of resources and ensure that the project aligns with team priorities and goals. Therefore, requesting funds for the design and development stage is a necessary step in ensuring that the implementation of rollups in Decentraland is successful and maximizes its potential benefits. Without this stage, it would be difficult to determine the most valuable areas to implement rollups, potentially resulting in suboptimal outcomes or inefficiencies.

So you are asking for 160k before even know where and how it could be used?

While many Decentraland transactions are already using Polygon, rollups offer additional benefits such as higher throughput and lower gas fees. Specific areas of Decentraland that could benefit from rollups would depend on team priorities, potentially including in-game transactions and off-chain interactions between players. A strategic analysis is needed to determine which smart contracts would provide the most value from a scaling perspective that is why in the stage 1 I wrote "design and development"

Do you know that most DCL transactions are using Polygon already?... Also, inplementing it "in Decentraland" doesn't mean anything, what specific part do you want to mugrate to rollup? Including wearables and emotes, Decentraland has more than 4000 smartcontracts.

At the time of writing, the average gas fee for a simple transaction on the Ethereum network is around 60-80 Gwei, while more complex transactions can require fees of up to 200 Gwei or more. We estimate that gas fees could be reduced by up to 90% and transaction speeds could increase to just a few seconds. It generally takes around 15-30 seconds for a transaction to be confirmed. You are right, we have performance issues, and I am working on projects that try to solve them, but honestly I do think that this is a big problem so we can remain competitive in the future. I can give you examples of metaverses that have implemented or are planning to implement this: Somnium Space, Decentral Games, Axie Infinity, Sandbox. As you can see, we need to do something as soon as possible or we will stay out of the game at some point

> The implementation of rollups will significantly reduce gas fees and transaction speeds i don't think that's wrong, i just don't really see that as a big issue atm. performance issues are a far, far bigger issue. do you have benchmarks of current gas fees/tx speeds and what we can expect to see if your proposal is enacted?

did you answer your own question or what is happening here?

If I may quote on what you mentioned [quote="LF_1, post:15, topic:18679, full:true"] People who are voting me don´t have vp but are the ones who want a change. I ask you to reconsider the proposal because we can achieve a lot with this [/quote] You mentioned that people who vote in favour of you don't have VP. My point is that most(not all) of these accounts that are in favour are likely bots, same with those that are against. But the numbers do show that people who have the VP, are choosing against. As with engagement from people who do have reasonable amounts of VP, I'd suggest that you do some searching and perhaps engage them at a personal level instead? After all, like an election, applying for grant does require some vote gathering.

What do bots have to do with the discussion? I just said that people with VP don´t seem to care about the future of Decentraland. If they don´t want the idea that is okay, but at least give some reasons so we can discuss and make changes. That way we could come with a better idea, but nobody is doing that

Hi LF_1, the ones who are voting yes but do not have VP/have very little are most likely bots. I voted no, on 2 reasons. Firstly, gas fees are already pretty low with almost all transactions taking place in polygon. Secondly. It is concerning that you aren't aware there's bots voting in the DAO, and their characteristics are typically accounts with little to no VP and with an address as a name. With that, you've lost my vote of confidence. At a quick glance, you'd be able to reason that the proposal is getting voted against not only in terms of VP, but sheer numbers as well

People who are voting me don´t have vp but are the ones who want a change. I ask you to reconsider the proposal because we can achieve a lot with this

I might made a mistake, instead of writing a 6 I wrote a 5, but that does not matter, because I will have to ask for another grant in the future for the second stage. It will be corrected then, do not worry and thank you for realizing this.

I have worked in an exchange called Domitai as the project manager for some years, I have also worked for the CNBV in Mexico as an adviser, and some small firms. These experiences have given me the chance to know people who are experts in the field, and I am sure that I could make this project work. I am a believer of Decentraland but honestly it needs a lot of changes if we want to remain competitive. Decentraland's flaws include scalability issues, high gas fees, limited functionality, steep learning curve, lack of user adoption, and potential legal challenges around virtual land ownership. I have this proposal but I am also working on others, but honestly I think that this one could make Decentraland very strong

Can you show examples of your experience ?  

Rollup solutions are a scaling technique used in blockchain networks that involves bundling multiple transactions into a single transaction, thus reducing the number of on-chain transactions and improving efficiency. While rollup solutions can help to reduce gas fees and increase transaction throughput, they come with several potential drawbacks that may not be suitable for all decentralized systems. First, rollup solutions rely on a trusted operator or a group of operators to process and validate transactions. This means that users must trust these operators not to tamper with their transactions, which goes against the principles of decentralization and trustlessness that underpin many blockchain networks. Second, rollup solutions may not be suitable for certain types of transactions, such as those that require instant finality or those that involve complex smart contract interactions. This is because rollup solutions require a delay period before the bundled transactions are finalized, during which time the transactions can be reversed if a valid challenge is presented. Finally, rollup solutions can be complex and expensive to implement and maintain, which may not be feasible for smaller or less well-funded decentralized projects. In summary, while rollup solutions can be effective at scaling blockchain networks, they may not be suitable for all decentralized systems, and the decision to implement them should be carefully considered based on the specific needs and constraints of the project.

I don´t have errors in numbers. That´s the total cost of the project. It will be divided in three stages as the proposal shows, in this stage the cost will be 160k which will be focused on development, I have a lot of experience in managing these types of projects, and I have a team that can make this project work. Answering to the other question, Rollups are a scaling solution for blockchain networks that allow for more transactions to be processed in a faster and cheaper way. Rollups work by batching many transactions together and then processing them off-chain before submitting a single transaction to the main blockchain. This allows for faster transaction processing times and reduces the fees required to execute transactions on the blockchain

I don't understand this proposal, can u explain it to me and make some examples what you could do and how it works?