I can somewhat agree with this. I have no earthly idea how much it costs to develop some of the things proposed, if it could be done cheaper, better, or if it's even plausible. I have also seen yes votes simply because people like each other, where I have had to say no with a broken heart because even though I like the person very much, I don't agree with parts of the proposal, and sometimes I worry that it will be taken personally. But this leads us to the question.. what is the real purpose of the DAO? At the end of 10 years, or when this money runs out, what do we hope to achieve?

Honestly I think the grant program is just a flawed concept trying to shoe horn VC investment into a framework that it doesn’t work for - the reason VCs are good at what they do is a ruthless eye for what works and what doesn’t, we can’t expect the majority of the community to understand technical submissions nor have the experience to value and justify them - putting a DAO in control of a traditional VCs bankroll would likely just see those funds disappear (not even maliciously - the general public just isn’t equipped to make decisions about products and teams that don’t exist yet) Grants should be awarded in posterity to users who have displayed significant contributions to the ecosystem, and should be relative to the value brought to DCL. Open source projects build success through developer prestige - we are the premiere metaverse framework currently and our focus on spending of funds should be to retain that edge and to attract the best developers in the world FOR FREE. A good developer will get more out of a solid open source contribution and being involved in the metaverse than any grant could provide - we have built a system that incentivized lowest effort/highest grants. Grants should be done in post, should be extremely hard to get, should be done via nomination (not self submitted) and no one, ever, should be gaurenteed money for work that has not been completed yet or quality assured - it’s not how VC’s work in real life and it’s not a viable way to fund GOOD community ideas.

I would love to hear what the plan is to discuss the reform and where we can bring our ideas. Specific changes could be made which allow for more efficient and transparent in capital use, and fairly representative decision making, and to remove any potential narrative of "the 1% control the DAO" because as of now it's very easily so. Some ideas: - Create DAO Success Squad which will be in charge of benchmarking performance targets for specific areas of work (whether game development or content creation, etc.) - Something like a Bi-Annual 1 month pause to run a standard analysis of our performance, and move benchmark placements as well as learn together, unbiased. This pause to learn shouldn't be a one time thing so we would be best to allow the creative community plan accordingly. - Limit last minute "whale swings" left with no opportunity for rebuttals. This can be done reducing the impact of VP if held until the final day/hours, or extending the voting period available if "last minute whale votes" topple a proposal which already has majority VP and majority voters. - Not completely, I do not think that VP should be linearly applied to Grant proposals by any whale. It allows people to get their own grants passed, or that of others, or stop others, based around one special interest groups desires. Rather than a straight 1 for 1 until infinity, we may look into a progressive reduction in impact each VP applied to grant can have. i.e. 100 mana or land VP applied may equal 100 VP in the vote on a grant X tier, 1,000 mana or land VP would equal 950 in the vote, 10k mana or land VP worth 7.5k in the vote. We could play around with these numbers to find something that represents the investment and position of "whales", without drowning out the "swimmers" - Open the option of "Abstaining" on a Grant proposal, suggested by Seanny which I believe works. - De-Risk Grant Program, and clarify "boundaries" by segmenting funds based on allocation %. More grants towards development, and less for content. - Require that all Grant Proposals of X amount or more include a 10 minute video (duration can be adjusted) and in order to cast your vote, the video must be completely watched. One of the biggest issues right now are people basing their opinion on comment threads rather than clear facts which although are written, people skip over or vote without reading at all. Is there someone taking on the drafting of the next stage of this proposal? Would be interested in knowing how to monitor the progress on this best.

Should we temporarily pause DCL's grants programme until Q1 2023? This proposal has been PASSED by a DAO Committee Member (0xfe91c0c482e09600f2d1dbca10fd705bc6de60bc)

Should we temporarily pause DCL's grants programme until Q1 2023? This proposal is now in status: FINISHED. Voting Results: * Yes, we should pause the grants programme 79% 11,646,706 VP (87 votes) * No, we should not pause the grants programme 20% 2,994,900 VP (42 votes) * Invalid question/options 1% 4,270 VP (1 votes)

[quote="MetaTrekkers, post:50, topic:16641"] 2)I dont agree in pausing to make change. I feel we are all talented people and we can do both at the same time simultaneously ”Multitasking”. I haven’t heard of any country, or system that will temporarily close down to just make change, they will try to do both at the same time. [/quote]  [quote="MetaTrekkers, post:50, topic:16641"] I suggest we pause during “Economic low peak season”. [/quote]  USA is in a Recession, just pointing that.. [quote="MetaTrekkers, post:50, topic:16641"] I suggest we pause during “Economic low peak season”. We are getting ready to go into Black Friday, Cyber Monday, Christmas and New Years. I think all around the world this is when majority of revenue is earned for companies, when dreams are made, when seed investing for dreamers starts. If you all want to pause I would be in favor of pausing during February or March when economically there is not as much activity going on. [/quote] is anyone else just as confused? We are global, we don't all celebrate or value the holidays the same. I see you value the holidays more from a businessman's point of view. Do you remember why Black Friday was created or when the first time the term was used? They teach it in Marketing basics.   [quote="MetaTrekkers, post:51, topic:16641"] It is traditionally considered to commence on the day after [American Thanksgiving](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(United_States)), a Friday colloquially known as either [Black Friday](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(shopping)) or Green Friday. This is widely reputed to be the busiest shopping day of the entire calendar year. [/quote] Here are some facts about Black Friday in my country..   I believe we need to pause the DAO while we have the chance to stay ahead and restructure ourselves together. Let's focus on completing successfully this DECADE and years to come, not just this year. Take care Dr.Oniya, thank you for sharing your feedback :innocent:

I’m happy these discussions are being had. I understand both sides of the argument as we all want long-term sustainable growth for Decentraland. I appreciate the facts presented and opinions and perspective of community members. Regardless of the decision, I truly believe everyone is aligned on the goal of keeping DCL alive. We all are aware of how competitive the metaverse will be with continued competition from multi-million/-billion dollar companies. One thing is clear - we must stay united in taking whatever approach is decided upon in order to keep the community strong so that we don’t fall victim to outside competition or pressure.

Greetings Dr. Oniya, Hello again, we spoke briefly at the Texas Blockchain Summit. I googled you and found your podcast with the IAA. I was surprised to learn about your impressive credentials soon after. This is an exciting time to be alive! You are super inspirational and I am honored to join you in this space. I think everyone should listen to Dr. Oniya. Afterall he has a doctorate from the University of International Business and Economics. When we have such brilliant-minded people like this in this space, we need to all put our attention on them. As for you Dr. Oniya, I do ask a question and I would love to hear your educated response from this. What would be the negative effects of pausing this grant process? Would you mind sharing your research on other instances where this has occurred or something comparable? May you have a blessed day. Thomas Jacobs

Here are some facts about the holiday season in my country and probably around the world as well: An annually recurring period recognized in many Western and other countries that is generally considered to run from late November to early January. It is defined as incorporating at least [Christmas Day](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Day), [New Year's Day](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year%27s_Day), and sometimes various other holidays and festivals. It also is associated with a period of shopping which comprises a [peak season for the retail sector](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_Christmas) (the "Christmas (or holiday) shopping season") and a period of sales at the end of the season (the "January sales") holiday season or the holidays) is an annually recurring period recognized in many Western and other countries that is generally considered to run from late November to early January. It is defined as incorporating at least [Christmas Day](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Day), [New Year's Day](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year%27s_Day), and sometimes various other holidays and festivals. It also is associated with a period of shopping which comprises a [peak season for the retail sector](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_Christmas) (the "Christmas (or holiday) shopping season") and a period of sales at the end of the season (the "January sales") It is traditionally considered to commence on the day after [American Thanksgiving](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(United_States)), a Friday colloquially known as either [Black Friday](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(shopping)) or Green Friday. This is widely reputed to be the busiest shopping day of the entire calendar year. However, in 2004 the [VISA](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VISA_(credit_card)) credit card organization reported that over the previous several years VISA credit card spending had in fact been 8 to 19 percent higher on the last Saturday before Christmas Day (i.e., [Super Saturday](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Saturday)) than on Black Friday. Here is data about the slow season: https://www.shopify.com/retail/retail-slow-months

Hello Everyone, First and foremost, thank you @Seanny for submitting this poll and strategy. You provided the community a platform to have meaningful discussions and debatable topics amongst each other. I would like to first state my position, initially I wanted to hold off from voting ,because I want to learn new perspectives and see everyone’s opinion and insight, life is a learning process and I am still learning everyday. After seeing everyones respectful and gracious opinion, I am now confident and ready to give my own opinion. I was born and raised in DCL, this is my home, our home and our future! My Stance goes as follows: 1)I agree we need reforms,changes and improvements! It’s not a bad thing, Change leads to greatness! I am all in agreement with improvements. 2)I dont agree in pausing to make change. I feel we are all talented people and we can do both at the same time simultaneously ”Multitasking”. I haven’t heard of any country, or system that will temporarily close down to just make change, they will try to do both at the same time. 3)If for some reason or another we as a community cannot “multitask” and oddly cannot complete both at the same time, which I am highly positive that the Grant support team can. I suggest we pause during “Economic low peak season”. We are getting ready to go into Black Friday, Cyber Monday, Christmas and New Years. I think all around the world this is when majority of revenue is earned for companies, when dreams are made, when seed investing for dreamers starts. If you all want to pause I would be in favor of pausing during February or March when economically there is not as much activity going on. I would love for us to be strategic about this. Last but not least, I would like to thank the Grant support squad @yararasita @palewin @Zino @Matimio @ginoct , especially the ones who commented, guys life is a journey, its a process, sometimes we have to trust the process, trust the team and trust the organization! I trust that we have the right people in place and they are making the updates and change that is needed for improvement of DCL DAO. As the saying goes ”Rome wasn’t built in a day”. Let’s give the DCL Dao Committee the support trust and time that is needed to make the right decisions. Let’s not force the process but but trust the process. Have a happy Sunday DCL family and regardless of anyones vote, I love you all. Chris Oniya MetaTrekkers Founder 路易

I posted a few thoughts about this in the DAO server, and want to commend the constructive and relevant discussion here. I believe that this proposal as a whole is going to push forward our community, core units, committee and others, coming together to find a solution to this. I also want to thank @yararasita, @Zino and others for your very thoughtful post, and of course @Seanny for your thoughtfulness throughout this. Overall, I believe that the community is self-correcting on grants, and significantly limiting which grants are approved. I see lots of forward motion toward resolving our issues surrounding grants, and no a lot of great minds are on it. I think that as a result, we do not need to pause the program. Of note, I do think pausing the program potentially has broader negative implications for our ecosystem as a whole, as we saw just us considering this proposal lead to increased coverage of the DAO and our operations, in a way that points to instability. https://www.coindesk.com/web3/2022/11/18/decentraland-dao-considers-pausing-grants-as-ftx-collapse-spotlights-diversification/ I do not think we are in a crisis situation, and that the grants are an important part to maintaining engagement and growth in our ecosystem. To pause would be to send the wrong message in my opinion, and not bring us more rapidly toward a solution.

Hey again! We chatted more in DMs my thoughts on the first part, but for the second part, no this view is not because I am attached to a proposal right now. This is something many of us had discussed months ago when the ethical question was first posed in the DAO Town Hall. But after a lot of conversations across many places, with various people I came to terms with the fact that I believe in not pausing, which is why none of us escalated to a proposal. So here we are months later in the present, and I still have the same thoughts.

I think this is one of the best most thought out and detailed proposals but it still offers no solution. There have been several types of "Trying to make a point" proposals submitted that just waste everyone's time. Something does need to be done to address this and the other matters. If there could be a set agenda of what needs to be fixed and discussed with deadlines and what happens if something can't be agreed up then maybe a pause would be ok. However as someone else stated, who will determine when they can be turned on again? It will have to go through a vote again and if it fails then what? That could be dangerous. I have to **vote no** at this time as much as I would rather not. Things like a fee for proposal submittal to discourage time wasting proposals and making a proposal go through a process of discussion and rough draft would be good as well. I think offering some form of staking of MANA and some diverse investments in some stable funds and crypto across different blockchains would be wise but not financial advise. Those are another subject for another time. Thank you.

I saw the **"Without a plan"** part of you comment as I scrolled through numerous others and that was on my mind the whole way down. I couldn't agree more on that point.

*[Disclaimer: I'm a Grant beneficiary under the DAO Governance Squad, one of the Grants being mentioned in this proposal]* Thanks for bringing this up @Seanny, I know the effort it takes to put up a proposal like this. First, let me say that **after reading +40 comments on this thread and not finding a single offense, harsh or disrespectful words**, I don't quite agree with your vision that the community is fragmented. It is true that we've seen some big discussions in the last few months surrounding Grants and money allocation, but I think that it's just a signal that the community is growing, that people **care** and that the fact we now have a decentralized and pretty trustless way to manage a treasury of a couple of million dollars is new to human beings and the reactions that that generates are sometimes a bit passional. I think that we're all aligned with the fact that **the Grants program needs a restructure** and personally, **I'm 100% aligned with the need for a Treasury diversification strategy**. I won't get into the numbers because most of the data is public and other members have provided details, but the fact that +90% of the treasury is in MANA is a huge risk, especially when the DAO acknowledged the volatility of the MANA when decided to allocate stablecoins for grants with longer vesting contracts to make sure grantees can plan for long-term execution. It looks like we're safeguarding grantees solvency but we're not doing the same with our treasury. **My biggest concern is with the halt without a plan**, I feel that the cost of opportunity of pausing the resource allocation without a clear view of what to do could be high and could be risky for the health of the developer's ecosystem. There have been multiple proposals around these topics ([Should the DAO implement a Bidding and Tendering process to allocate resources for voted projects?](https://governance.decentraland.org/proposal/?id=ce730570-6053-11ed-bf97-7dbf9f54c71d), [Strategy & Finance Squad](https://governance.decentraland.org/proposal/?id=0e747070-2565-11ed-ac99-5bece7edccd0), [$12MM Treasury Diversification](https://governance.decentraland.org/proposal/?id=ef44b230-66d4-11ed-a8f3-85d147463e4c), [Framework for New Committee who decides when to revoke grants](https://governance.decentraland.org/proposal/?id=fca083a0-595a-11ed-be45-c5d5549af004), [Restructuring the Community Grants Program](https://governance.decentraland.org/proposal/?id=e2fbd710-426c-11ed-9eb2-21be7ab68113), and I'm probably missing some others) that have been published in the last few weeks and there are some ongoing conversations for actions that could be taken that haven't been crystalized in published proposals yet. So the community is already having this conversation, and since the Grants are passed by community voting, **if the DAO members feel that no money should be granted, they should be voting NO until this situation gets sorted out.** I get the point that without a clear mission and vision of what the DAO should be striving for, sometimes it's difficult to make a decision when casting a vote (That's why I made the call for discussing a DAO Constitution and @web3nit put together [this proposal](https://governance.decentraland.org/proposal/?id=c2567370-5db6-11ed-9128-d95e3b6d7912) that didn't get passed.) but I would be cautious with the idea of having a DAO Roadmap. We're not a product DAO, for that, the Decentraland Foundation exists and the DAO has delegated the execution of the main roadmap of the project (Reference Client) to them. **We should be addressing the question of why are we here and what our mission is** on the Decentraland ecosystem and use that as a north star when allocating resources. It could be in a *chaorderly* manner as it is right now, or in a more organized way (Like the Tendering process project proposes or maybe having a fixed budget and seasons for Grants). Finally, I'd like to make a small note on the exception for the DAO Squads (Currently 4 squads with 12 people employed full or part-time). I do think that the operational squads of the DAO should be treated a bit differently (Especially because sometimes it's hard to attract world-class talent and provide a career path for contributors with the amount of uncertainty the current hiring method has) but as with all the other topics, I wouldn't make an exception on this same proposal. **If the Grants Program get paused, there should be no exceptions**, we would have to find ways to reshape those teams and their funding. In summary, I agree with all the reasons provided but not with the method proposed. I don't see how pausing the Grants would fix all these issues. I propose the following: This poll will probably pass, and since the Governance process that we have allows for multiple Draft proposals to be derived from a poll, we should open up working groups for the topics mentioned in this poll * Mission and Vision of the Decentraland DAO for 2023 and beyond * Treasury Management Strategy * Grants Program Restructure (Tiers, accountability, financial reporting, KPIs & Impact, * Hiring and operations of the DAO Core Squads/Units Each one of those working groups will extract a Draft proposal that will be linked to this poll. The ones that get passed, will become binding Governance proposals. In the meantime, I would suggest fellow community members to be cautious and reasonable when voting for Grants, to keep building, and to keep contributing and engaging with this amazing community.

Despite the fact that all the yes voters have great points, I don't think there's a long-term benefit from stopping the grants. In order to change, complex systems (like the dao) need to be in movement. The grant we're working on (2d client) has the potential to create a very big upside for Decentraland and the DAO long-term, but we will not be able to make it without the grants program. By stopping grants you're effectively removing the chance of a project like ours to show up and generate a lot of upside too. Don't do that, is very dangerous.

I have some rational questions, I would like to as of you: [quote="ckbubbles, post:39, topic:16641"] but I still have major issues with the same person that once was actually draining the DAO of funds as a whale, being the same one who is now looking to push forward the reform of the system. [/quote] Are you unwilling to give someone a second chance? [quote="ckbubbles, post:39, topic:16641"] Plus I don’t see the value or benefit in pausing grants for a month and half or so to talk it out. I think at this point we should be taking the ideas and convos we’ve been having in working groups and start testing some solutions. Or creating actionable items, that possibly come from outside of the grants system, relating to VP, or other areas too. [/quote] I do recall you are on a team that has a grant proposal out at the moment. Do you think this is effecting your decision?

Good afternoon fellow Decentraland Citizens, I come here today to discuss why I am in favor of pausing the Grant. First and far most, I would like to give you a background that I am coming from. I understand my tactics are not conservative or the usual way about making a point. In fact, I will admit to using troll-like actions to promote the point I am trying to make. However, while I have used proposals and tweets as a radical means of trying to get my point across, I have only been pushing policy that has been proven successful. As for any comments that I have made on proposals, I have only made one personal attack and it wasn't intentional. I actually publicly apologized for it on Twitter. All the others have been providing evidence of the history and credibility of the grantee's past. They have always tried to make me come off as the troll, but these events absolutely happened. I have a paralegal background as well as some public policy. I don't like to make claims without some kind of evidence. In fact, I mostly try to question around the evidence. The truth being brought to light for many can seem like a personal attack. I never intend for anything to be taken personal, everyone makes mistakes and I fully believe in second chances. However, when I share the evidence with the person and they choose to point fingers or lack the responsibility of their past, then yes it shows me, that they have not learned their lesson or do not care about their wrongdoing. I give everyone a 2nd chance. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I do not give a 3rd chance. Not saying they cannot learn from their actions, just saying it is a personal decision to not give them a 3rd chance. With that being said, that is how I operate. I am that I am. But this is not about me. This is about Decentraland and the place where we are and will continue to spend most of our time in the Metaverse. We need to redirect it's path. I am in favor of Pausing the Grant process temporarily because of a few reasons. Right now, many grants are: simulating the Tragedy of the Commons; having outcomes that are altered by something similar to a voting cartel; failing to meet outcome expectations; lacking poor balance sheet/ accounting; lacks ethical guidelines or by-laws; and more. I don't have a solution for all of these problems, but maybe that's why as a community we should take a step back, come up with some ways to attack these issues, then take 2 steps forward. The focus keeps getting redirected by grant proposals. As we are currently seeing, some of those voting 'No' on this is because they want to put their own proposal first before the community. When if we pause this, now the focus is real change and not personal interests, because those temporarily disappear. This small opening, gives us opportunities to re-organize and make upgrades to this DAO process. Let's show the world what our DAO can do. With that being said, my promise to everyone here is that I will continue to be honest, fight for transparency and try my best to do what's right. I am here to try to help us grow, not hinder us. Let's look at this proposal as a way to move forward. Thank you for your time! I appreciate your consideration on this matter. Best regards, Tudamoon

https://www.coindesk.com/web3/2022/11/18/decentraland-dao-considers-pausing-grants-as-ftx-collapse-spotlights-diversification/?outputType=amp " The Decentraland DAO - the metaverse platform's community decision-making tool - is holding a vote on whether to temporarily pause its grant program and reassess its structure. " " The grants program has shown to be a key aspect and fantastic addition to Decentraland, however, the time might be right to pause and review its current structure, identifying valuable lessons from its shortcomings.."

really great discussion in this whole thread, but wow @Zino you bring up some very good points! After reading through this whole thread I think that I'm with @1eye - a big part of me agrees with this, but with the points put forth, a larger part of me disagrees - so I have changed my vote to "no" @yararasita also brought up very good points about concrete steps we can take and are in the process of taking. I also very much agree with @ckbubbles about needing more project management teams. thanks again everyone for the discussion here

I agree with @AwedJob and @Zino here. I don't think we need to pause, as we are doing the work in the DAO discord with conversations. Maybe we need more actioning and testing to happen like what @ile is attempting with their VP distribution idea. I also have to say, and sorry @Seanny, I hope you don't take offense personally here, as you've for the most part been nice and friendly to me — but I still have major issues with the same person that once was actually draining the DAO of funds as a whale, being the same one who is now looking to push forward the reform of the system. Plus I don't see the value or benefit in pausing grants for a month and half or so to talk it out. I think at this point we should be taking the ideas and convos we've been having in working groups and start testing some solutions. Or creating actionable items, that possibly come from outside of the grants system, relating to VP, or other areas too. My personal opinion: We really need more project managers in this space, there's a lot of ppl with ideas, or who like to talk, but not enough people willing to do the work. And the grants squad, is only so many people to handle all the work.

Really appreciate this and @palewin post this really puts a different perspective on things and gives a analytical full view thanks for sharing. It also helps to get some of us who are not up to speed on task and tracking.

i think a fee to post request would help but same time would suck for the less fortunate to pay fee and not make it. Thats risk tho. If someone wants burn 5-10 dollars in mana to troll screw um. Thats 5 or ten more or x amount mana for the dao.

 I have read through all the comments.. thanx all for your time to express and reveal your thoughts.. So 40% of me for agree. But 60% of me definitely for disagree with an idea of this proposal :) LET PEOPLES BUILD! And for active involved community peoples is a good reason to find some decision sooner than later to resolve most important issues asap... because all we know that with every new day our treasury become less and less if there is no adequate government consensus and decisions. Despite the TRUE fact that some of proposals really ridiculous, there is still plenty of really good one! and I think its much better to continue provide funding to cultivate good stuff... with sometimes expensive price in form of bad stuff... I hope we will find and execute some nice solutions within upcoming 4 months... If not - then WE ARE is one of the issues which should be fixed, not the grants mechanism :)))

Vote: NO Work needs to be done and is being done to improve the DAO. There are active discussions in the DCL DAO Discord, here in governance and in the forums. A pause is not needed to continue this work. Having time with no new proposals does create relative calm in which to discuss and enact reforms. It's a "nice to have" thing. A downside to pausing grants is that no new, large-scale projects are likely to begin during this period. One does not need funding to experiment and complete work in this space. However, projects of a certain complexity or ambition would not begin without access to grants through the DCL DAO. As @palewin points out above ≈ $1.5M I had not considered a negative public reaction as @zino opined here: [quote="Zino, post:33, topic:16641"] From my point of view, it will affect us in a negative way... [/quote] I think that turning off the flow of grants would be viewed with suspicion and concern. It would be a clarion call that something is wrong. I think of the stock market circuit breakers and why they are needed. If there is a significant level drop, trading is halted for a period of time to prevent a free fall. As shown in the above total amounts citations, there has been nothing close to a 7% draw down of DAO treasury much less the 13% or 20% drop that triggers a halt in trading of the U.S. stock market. And those result in, at most, a halt until the following day. Surely we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can always revisit the possibility of this kind of action in the future should the situation worsen. But if we take this action now, we can't unring the bell. Let's continue the discussion and the work to improve this magnificent experiment.