I think it is a bit hard to push this forward, our DAO structure will keep itself off from this kind of big changes, unless leaders like Yemel or Estaban push it forward

I came to the Decentraland DAO to ultimately come to the same conclusions, but I see, you've tried and failed to pitch this Layer 2 DAO. I wonder if now is the time! Send a message, lets refine the focus for your ideas. I think a future proposal would better pitch the value to DCL players!

Open up discussion for a Metaverse Layer 2 that developed by DCL This proposal is now in status: REJECTED. Voting Results: * Ye, create a dedicted channle in dao discord for this topic 41% 1,374,427 VP (46 votes) * No, it's not a priority now 1% 21,549 VP (9 votes) * Invalid question/options 58% 1,897,444 VP (11 votes)

Ok Ronin that's a full blockchain not a token that's part of what I meant. Oh on beating youtube - because there's only 100-200 active creators in DCL and there's $400,000 to split for in-world content can easily beat the monetization of youtube in dcl. It's all being stolen by individuals in dcl, many who generate no traffic rather than split to all top performers. The average youtubers make zero, that's an easy number to beat. Only those children of central bankers who don't even need money and can smash a truck just for fun on youtube video can earn on youtube. Everything is communist that comes from USA like that. It's easy to beat with freedom and equity. Many users I've talked to come to DCL they don't like the US Commie spyware of facebook and propaganda social media. Monetization also fits the user base.

thanks for your view, but the aim is to save Mana, not give up. Please check the relationships between the Ronin Chain and Axie Infinity, they help to boost each other not to devalue each other. So they either move forward together or move back together, on the same boat It sounds like a bold plan, but we are in extreme situation. Yes, we can easily say "hey lets keep developing the product until its perfect" , but we know (at least IMO) its not gonna happen with a 60 ppl team of foundation. (Roblox got 2000 ppl) Thats the reason we might need some new method, new web3 native story, and organically integrate the original DCL system into it As for Youtube, their ads revenue is huge, while DCL's revenue is too tiny... how do we have more monetization backup than them? And the reason why its vague, is because the Call to Action is to create a channel for discussion, and co work on it together to make it more clear

I want to clarify that I like your proposal and think you should keep fighting for it. But the real incentives I mean is either economic incentives, Or experience related (a user-friendly and engaging platform) . And i don't think we can have any advantage for the latter one compared with other platforms in forsee future. So basically i mean the former one, which is economic incentives. For more discussion,l i think we can keep chatting in the future discord channel, again this is just a proposal to open up discussion, not a decision-making one.

Voting no the description can't be translated into software or blockchain components because is way to vague. All I see is people giving up on Mana, wanting to trading it for Eth without producing any projects that boost the value of Mana. Any legislators who think like this and want to throw in the towel should resign ASAP. There is plenty of Mana to beat youtube, spotify and virtually any monetization systems out there for artists, coders etc but the DAO is embezzling it. Any new coins that would be under the control of this voting system with high VP delegates etc would be invalid and just get stolen too.

How do you know my plan does not provide REAL incentives?

yes, it is, thats why I mentioned it should be a 5M+ level of fundraising project. the key difference between updating our engine to replace Unity is that it does not generate new token incentives by doing so, but a new layer 2 would. Plus, developing a layer 2 got fewer technical challenges than doing a new engine... the ROI difference is quite obvious to me Your plan was good, you can keep fighting for it, but it does not provide any REAL incentives for players and contributors as well, which is sth DCL need now to attract people. You might argue we need a better platform before onboarding new people, but come on, HOW can we compete with Roblox in terms of experience when we have 60 ppl in the foundation while they have 2000 ppl in their team, not to mention their product has existed long before DCL. So i think the solution must still be in Web3, smart contract, Tokenomics, and incentives stuff, which is our forgotten advantages. And layer 2 is a good option to put all of them together and re-activate the DCL eco system

It's a lot of work to replace polygon though.. Looking back I still think my idea should of been accepted 2 years ago.. But now I think we're late to the party.. If we're going to focus on an infrastructure project this big then we might as well focus on our own game engine to replace unity.. The plan of my project was to do (more or less) what you're talking about.. Which is being voted against now and was even revoked..

[quote="dao, post:1, topic:21846"] 3/ Sensibility For so long, we have relied on Polygon as the side chain for wearable trading, so if we have a chance, why we do not use a layer 2 chain developed by us? And if more metaverse projects are developed on this new layer 2 chain, **Decentraland will truly become the infrastructure of web3 metaverse, as we will have a layer 2 chain for transactions, and we have open-source reference clients. ** [/quote] Check here [quote="MetaDogeisme, post:9, topic:21846"] 1/ To be clear I was proposing a Metaverse-focus Layer 2 instead of a Layer 2 metaverse, which has significant differences. DCL can operate as usual, just use this new layer 2 to replace Polygon/Matics. And they will be mutually beneficial as a part of the new token can be used to attract players/contributors to DCL which is sensible since DCL will be the goat in this layer 2 network. A similar example would be the relationships between “Axie Infinity” and “Ron Network”, Axie still operates on its own regarding the experience side, however, it will use Ron as its main chain for on-chain transactions. And the truth is that Ron network did help AXS to thrive longer compared with if they didn’t have it. OFC there will be new problems introduced, but that sth to be considered after 2-3 years, which should theoretically give enough time for DCL to improve itself, [/quote] And here, my friend. To summarise, layer 2 will replace the Polygon/Matics and become the transaction layer of DCL, or even further to make the entire dcl stats to be fully on chain. Plus, more projects can use this layer to deploy their version of metaverse, maybe using DCL's code. However, we don't need to worry about DCL's position being challenged, as we own the chain we own the goat product on this chain, and DCL will be the leading product on this new layer2 chain. (That means we can prepare a specila token incentive allocation specifically to DCL which is a privilege over other new projects on this L2 ) Again, I want to re re emphasise why we need L2. 1/ for new story and narrative 2/ new token as rewards to attract users. 3/Product sensibility to make dcl become the infrastructure of web3 metaverse. not only for the experience layer but also for the smart contract layer. A new team will be founded, New funds need to be raised led by foundation as they get the connection and IP resources, DAO can support with talents

[quote="MetaDogeisme, post:19, topic:21846"] Now the only challenge I see is A/ if the foundation or even DAO want to do this, as @maryana said, this is a big idea that needs big implementation, if we are divided, then it has no chance of being done. B/ Many and many realistic things to consider along the way… [/quote] How will we use the L2 within decentraland though?

This is what I proposed from the beginning, a new layer 2 focus on metaverse, not bridging polkadot or any other chain. The aim of this proposal is not to attract other chain users but to create a new chain to form a new narrative and new incentives. (Even though I think it is a good idea to do bridging, that is a different topic than this one) I said a lot of times, I propose to build a new team led by the foundation, followed by DAO's talents, because the foundation has the credibility to raise new investment from institutions like GreyScale, and I am talking about 500m+ investment which is pretty common in layer 2 fundraising. As for the tech side, we can easily use new tools, for example, OP stack, to create a new chain like the Base chain has done. Regarding how to attract users. The new token would be the key to attracting them, as we can use part of the new token as an incentive to invite ppl to build, and play. (ofc some of the tokens will be used to incentive new projects to build on this new chain) Please check the story of Arbitrum, OPtimism, ZKSync, Starknet and even Blast of how they attract users, I know we are different, but the common thing is they provide a token to incentivise users to do what they want, this is the takeaway points. And here it comes to the operation part which is they are capable of making that token valuable. This comes back to my point of why running a project properly is more challenging than the tech side itself, as we need a lot of things like investor endorsement, marketing, economic design etc to achieve it Now the only challenge I see is A/ if the foundation or even DAO want to do this, as @maryana said, this is a big idea that needs big implementation, if we are divided, then it has no chance of being done. B/ Many and many realistic things to consider along the way....

the tech is the hard part.. Running it is easy if the tech is built right.. I think this should be built/maintained by someone who knows does this in their sleep.. But development costs would be in the $x00,000s.. I was going to do this for $20k even though I was paying someone $8k a month to help.. Polkadot was a good option because it was easy to launch a parathread and customize a pallet to manage NFTs.. There was not a great NFT bridge solution at the time so I designed one.. Although my funding was cut the team I was working with on this are building it anyway because they see the value in my designs.. There's a lot of things to think about when it comes to adding an L2.. If I had to do this on a foundation level it would basically be building a completely new project from scratch. Using something like Phala's phat contracts or rndr to account for catalyst runtime expenses and in-game server connections.. also probably include a paid service for increased performance. But realistically that's not gonna happen. Because it would need a new token. The real problem is users... We don't have enough.. So there's no point in building a completely new L2 that only a few scenes would have the technical ability to interact with.. Even if I was to follow through on my design and you would of been able to wrap NFTs/trade them. The application becomes a problem as well.. There's not a killer dapp on decentraland that needs a L2 at the moment.. This is something that i've been saying we should of done 2 years ago.. https://decentraland.org/governance/proposal/?id=668e2d90-4a47-11ec-be0c-afec86cba5e5 TLDR IMO it's not worth it now..

YES, there is risk, both technical and operational, so here I'm just to open up discussions to kick-start the topic. I also agree this should not be a pure community-level project. Need a strong hand who has previous experience leading, and is backed by famous investors like Grey Scale to support. Currently, I can only see foundation ppl like @yemel Estaban might have that drive and ability. Thus i kept mentioning need deep collab between the foundation and dao

It is correct, they used the new L2 to create a new narrative for their game, which is the same thing challenge that we are facing. Lack of narrative and incentives as i mentioned. The timing now is good since we are at the beginning of the bull market, and layer2 is a hot trend, if we can catch the trend while achieving what we want. Plus, i want to re-emphasis again that this will not take too many resources from the foundation, as the foundation and Dao should work together to do fundraising, might need some time from @yemel in the beginning, but once the fund rasing is finished, and we can create a new team, recruiting those who have been cut from the foundation, or select the talents to form the DAO, using the money we raised. I want to mention again, the challeng here is on the execution side, but theoretically it works, so here to just open up dicussion

ye.... things could be better when bull 100% got back, DCL will get back as well i believe, but there should be sth to be done if we want to really bring it back to the glory old days

thats why needing foundation + DAO to do fund raising, youself obviously dont have the credibitliy as the foundation do, and to co execute, the tech is not that hard, but the hard part is to run it properly, which need endorsements, marketing, economic design etc , all the complex stuff to launch a layer2. But the return could be huge as well

Again the example of Axie and Ron, I think the existing of Ron did help the AXS growing instead of dividing the consensus. It is still rely on how to implement it, if doing it well, it could be a huge booster.

Hey @SugarClub, I have 3 things to clarify 1/ To be clear I was proposing a Metaverse-focus Layer 2 instead of a Layer 2 metaverse, which has significant differences. DCL can operate as usual, just use this new layer 2 to replace Polygon/Matics. And they will be mutually beneficial as a part of the new token can be used to attract players/contributors to DCL which is sensible since DCL will be the goat in this layer 2 network. A similar example would be the relationships between "Axie Infinity" and "Ron Network", Axie still operates on its own regarding the experience side, however, it will use Ron as its main chain for on-chain transactions. And the truth is that Ron network did help AXS to thrive longer compared with if they didn't have it. OFC there will be new problems introduced, but that sth to be considered after 2-3 years, which should theoretically give enough time for DCL to improve itself, (it is a little bit different because Ron is an independent chain, and a Layer2 chain is attached to ETH, and thanks to many new tools like OPstack, it is much easier now to launch a layer2) 2/ As I mentioned in the proposal, the foundation and DCL DAO could do whatever they are doing while creating a new team for this new layer 2. It is technically possible, but it requires deep collaboration between the foundation and Dao, and a newly formed strong team (but luckily we have talents in DAO, and they might not decide to leave DCL if they can be hooked into this new opportunity), needs to co-fund raising, and execution, which is a challenge as @maryana said. [quote="dao, post:1, topic:21846"] Last, I want to emphasise that layer 2 should not affect the current efforts on platform enhancement by the foundation and the DAO, ideally, they should be working in parallel. [/quote] @maryana ye... since this is a DAO proposal, only if the DAO come together, we can then influence to the foundation, if we are not aligned, then it is hard tbh. But the call to action here is just to create a channel on Discord, to open up a discussion [quote="maryana, post:8, topic:21846"] Not a bad idea, but not sure how large of a priority this would be by the foundation. This would require some serious planning, funding, design & implementation of the tokenomics (and legal considerations). [/quote]

Not a bad idea, but not sure how large of a priority this would be by the foundation. This would require some serious planning, funding, design & implementation of the tokenomics (and legal considerations). I'm abstaining for now, but I'm curious how these conversations would go.

[quote="SugarClub, post:3, topic:21846, full:true"] An other big risk is also narrative ( maybe bigger than the ones you mentioned ) I can see all the critics saying this looks like desperation for a sinking ship. In addition to alienating the existing user base on L1 by confusing everyone on the connection between the 2 platforms and devaluation of the existing MANA , Land , names, emotes . Unless all users get these airdropped in L2 but even then it’s riddled with risks all over it . Also keep in mind DCL is struggling on all fronts particularly the platform category. What will be the perception if suddenly the foundation and DAO pivot to make a L2 metaverse ? I guarantee it will make it look like DCL is getting abandoned for the new shiny thing . [/quote] :100: I have witnessed things like this on Discord, for better or worse, I have been more actively involved in the DAO for a few months now and I have not had to experience these disputes firsthand, but I suppose that conflict is part of life.

https://decentraland.org/governance/proposal/?id=79b5abda-262e-4b76-a948-d7cc6f5719ac A L2 using similar code is possible.. I had the architecture half completed for deposit/transfer via substrate pallets/withdraw.. I'm not spinning up this project again without proper funding though.. It's costly to run a L2.. I could be earning $15k a month doing this for another project..

The truth is that I am very captivated by the idea of capturing the interest of users again, in the last 3 months Decentraland has lost 50% of its visitors and I think we are at an extreme situation.

I was doing this but got funds revoked.. :+1: